coffee, wi-fi and the decline of western civilization.
Victrola has started wi-fi free weekends, an act so radical we’ve been slashdotted. I have had a thousand conversations about this, heard every idea under the sun and am now destined to hear them all repeated again in quantity.
Victrola wins the dubious honor of “best wi-fi area”. Wont somebody please try the coffee???
So I thought (in the interests of adding some new content to my dusty blog) I’d share some of my own thoughts…
Jen and Chris, the fantastic proprietors of Victrola (we refer to them as “teh parents”) were reluctant to make the wifi plunge. Victrola has always had a timeless feel about it and adding laptops and network troubleshooting to the mix just didn’t have much appeal. Eventually they caved to the plaintive cries of my geek friends who supplied us some hardware and an unnanounced wi-fi network took bloom. The first months were quiet, with only a handful of folks being aware of the network. Over time the number of laptop users grew, available seating space declined and the cafe started to resemble a library. Every time the router burped or the network became slow, baristas were inundated with (occasionally unfriendly) requests to fix the problem. People went from telling us how cool it was we had free wi-fi to presuming it to be our raison d’etre.
In short - free wi-fi is electronic cocaine.
Every staff meeting we had, the topic of wi-fi became the most heated. The cafe had become quieter, the tip jar was getting lighter and a small minority of difficult and demanding users were making things unpleasant for the baristas. At the same time, a great number of our favorite regulars were good citizens and managed to use the wifi at length while still being friendly, sharing tables, buying stuff, flirting with our staff, etc.. Pulling the plug wouldn’t be an easy option.
My compromise solution was to introduce just a little droplet of friction. The victrolacoffee.net blog is intended to be a sort of light captive portal on the wifi network. Users first port 80 requests on the network on a given day would be redirected to this page which we hope would start to take on the function of a community portal. Fill it with regular stories about the events and behind the scenes stuff of the cafe and the interesting stuff being done by our customers.
I am an internet addict. I can go without an internet connection for only about as long as I can go without coffee [insert sipping sound]. Marhall Mcluhan said “people don’t actually read newspapers, they step into them every morning like a hot bath.” The internet is one helluva hot bath. The typical junkie in front of his screen, fiending on RSS feeds, IM-ing, checking email, and reading inane slashdot threads is in another world. It seems like having a small webpage to remind people where they actually are might inject a useful bit of self consciousness into the user population, and also could cover some important topics of security and etiquette. Scanning network traffic on a busy day one sees many cleartext email passwords, virus propagation, and inappropriately shared directories (not to mention a really dull selection of web sites).
The captive portal thing is still in beta. Some hacked firmware, some software duct tape, a bit of random coding… we’ve almost got it working. Any day now. Really. I know I keep saying that. Its almost working…
But, as is being reported all over the globe, Victrola is pulling the plug on weekends. If this past weekend was any indication, its the right move. The place was noisy and jumpin’ - people actually conversed! A few customers were in painful enough withdrawal that they stayed home, finding time to send email about how upsetting it was. But the overwhelming response was positive.
So the bigger sociological question here is what sort of effect is the growing ubiquitous-internet-drug having on our culture? Already I have an RSS reader on my cellphone. Where is this going? Why aren’t we talking about the coffee???
Tags:
May 26th, 2005 at 10:27 pm
We’ve just opened a second store near the original location of our first store. The first store moved out of the neighborhood three years ago when the landlord violated the lease, and now that we are back, most of our business so far (pre-grand opening) has been people from the neighborhood who remember us fondly and have been waiting.
We’ve been open for about two weeks now, but still haven’t put the name on the store or advertised or anything, and in those two weeks, we’ve had lots of requests for the wifi, which we turned on yesterday. We are much closer to the office buildings on the edge of downtown, and we are getting more and more people from the local businesses.
I’m curious to see how the wifi will play out at our location, and I plan to watch this closely to see how your situation goes.
I would love more information about your “captive portal thing”, even if it is still in beta.
May 26th, 2005 at 11:51 pm
I am one of the guilty geeks who ponied up for the hardware and I’ve been the one trying to get the captive portal thing working, we’ve been trying to use a modified firmware for the Linksys WRT54G (http://www.portless.net/menu/ewrt/). It offers nocatSplash for captive portaling… I did a little bit of hacking to take out the login, since that wasn’t a requirement, and just redirect people to victrolacoffee.net on their first web request from the network. Unfortunatly we were running into problems and had to shut down the feature for the time being. I suspect that nocat makes a little lookup table of all the MAC addresses that are authorized to browse freely and because of all the unique MACs that run through victrola on any given day it simply fills up available memory. Whatever the issue is eventually the router stops routing and baristas get harrased.
As for the grander issue. I’m on the fence on the whole thing. I’m a freelance software guy, I work primarily out of my home, and I love being able to head over to the vic get a latte or two (and a sandwich and a cookie and tip very well) and get some work done under a different ceiling. However I totally see Jen and Chris’ point about the culture. I’ve tried to help tonx find a good solution, unfortunatly I couldn’t really come up with one that didn’t require a bunch of handholding and explinations from the baristas. So no wifi on weekends seems like a good experiment to me.
May 27th, 2005 at 6:57 am
Good for you guys!
I really think this is a good idea personally.
In reading the slashdot thread, my reaction was the same as yours, “won’t someone try the coffee!” It was just sad to see all these people debating something that really shouldn’t need to be debated and completely ignoring the incredibly good coffee. All of that being said, one of the suggestions that I thought made a fair amount of sense in that thread was getting rid of all or most of the power outlets so people could only stay as long as their battery lasted.
also, brett: have you thought about putting the WRT54G into AP mode and running a linux box as a router with NoCatSplash to get around mem issues etc? I’ve got a spare old compaq 400mhz celeron/64mb ram laptop and also a pentIII 700/128mb laptop I’d be willing to donate to the cause.
May 27th, 2005 at 9:38 am
On the other hand, the whole brouhaha tweaked you into actually updating your blog. ;)
Given the circumstances, I think Victrola’s is an eminently reasonable reaction. I’m as geeky as the next guy (okay, more) but given the choice between community (and fab coffee!) or the ability to jack-in, I’ll choose the first. Unless I’m on a deadline or some such, and then the most reasonable course of action is to get a go-cup anyhow.
May 27th, 2005 at 9:54 am
http://bccy.blogspot.com/2005/05/regional-coffee-culture-part-xxxx.html
May 27th, 2005 at 10:26 am
I have actually thought about using a secondary machine to do the captive portaling. I kind of discarded the idea as too bulky and too expensive. This was before the EWRT firmware started crapping out though :). I’d love to try it as would tonx im sure. If you want to leave that 400mhz jobbie with tonx at the coffeeshop, I’ll be glad to take some time over the next week or two and get it running.
I’m really more interested in solutions that require us to wire the chairs to deliver a increasing amount of electric shock though ;)
May 27th, 2005 at 10:36 am
It’s hard.
I wish it were not an issue - I wish people were more considerate and well-behaved. But they are not.
I’m glad someone stepped up and at least raised the issue. Regardless of the solution, now at least people are aware of the problem because - believe me - it’s true at a huge number of coffee bars.
Gotta be a way to timeout connections. Give a one hour quota with a required 2 hour downtime per machine.
May 27th, 2005 at 10:54 am
It’s interesting, from all the anectdotes, that the overriding litmus test seems to be whether cutomers are buying stuff. Nothing wrong with that but it’s a little disingenuous to spin it like its a “community” thing. We have a for-profit business that, in a microeconomic perspective, is offering a complementary product (wifi) to increase demand for its core product (coffee). But this only works when the razor (wifi) is useless without the blade (coffee): obviously that isn’t the case (phase “like a fish without a bike” comes to mind), so changes need to be made. I think the change being made makes sense, and if it helps to make the medicine go down better by focusing on the community aspect (cynical, aren’t I?), more power to you.
May 27th, 2005 at 11:43 am
Geez i just love reading stories about WiFi Nazi’s and their attempts to control the bandwidth, info flow, etc.
I’m surprised that you ONLY have one network available
at your coffee shop; we have four or five (i’m sitting in
Peet’s and sipping a nice iced coffee) and more if i wanted
to free them from the oppressive shackles of WEP.
That you have Non-tipping, non-buying scurges means
you should BOOT THEIR ASSES out; it’s a coffee shop
for selling coffee, not a rumper room for deadbeats with
wifi addictions.
Foobar has Spoken!
May 27th, 2005 at 11:47 am
Geez i just love reading stories about WiFi Nazi’s and their attempts to control the bandwidth, info flow, etc.
I’m surprised that you ONLY have one network available
at your coffee shop; we have four or five (i’m sitting in
Peet’s and sipping a nice iced coffee) and more if i wanted
to free them from the oppressive shackles of WEP.
That you have Non-tipping, non-buying scurges means
you should BOOT THEIR ASSES out; it’s a coffee shop
for selling coffee, not a rumper room for deadbeats with
wifi addictions.
Foobar has Spoken!
May 27th, 2005 at 11:48 am
Back at Speakeasy in 1996-ish, we (behind the counter) had a tool that would tell us which of the free terminals had been in use for a long time. We could send little reminder messages to the terminals if it looked like there were people waiting to use them, and cut people off if they ignored the reminders.
That doesn’t transfer over very well to free wireless, but I do like the idea of limiting the amount of time you can spend online in any given period. Perhaps with a web interface that would tell you how much time you had left, that you could leave open in the background so you wouldn’t be surprised when your terminal session cut out suddenly.
May 27th, 2005 at 2:16 pm
It is difficult to form a technological solution for a social problem, and design and implementation aside, I’m not sure I can even imagine a perfect system that would find the sweet spot between ineffective and rude.
My girlfriend was (until recently) a server at a semi-fancy restaurant that was popular for lunch meetings. When people linger at their table for hours, the server isn’t making any money, and is sometimes required to stay at work hours longer than they would otherwise, even if the people have ceased their eating and drinking.
Most restaurant owners/managers would (should?) not allow the servers to tell the people to wrap it up and get the hell out, even after hours of lingering, because it doesn’t feel right and seems unprofessional. Also, the server doesn’t get paid until everyone leaves the table and decides what to tip, so asking people to move along (at the risk of offending them) is financial suicide for the server.
The lingering is expected/encouraged at coffeehouses, but only to a point, so the line is even fuzzier (although the tip is already in the jar at that point).
We have the additional layer of not being in an area with much pedestrian traffic, so the few parking spots in our lot become limiting factors in addition to the seats being taken up.
May 27th, 2005 at 4:08 pm
Brett:
In looking at the two machines, the 400mhz laptop has one RJ45 jack in the form of a PCMCIA adapter, and could possibly have one more through it’s USB port. In other words, not a particularly good setup for a router.
The 700mhz laptop has one builtin jack and one with the PCMCIA card. I’ll drop that one off by the shop. Just to warn you, the backlight dies intermittently. Also, it currently dual-boots WinXP and Debian Woody. I think I’ll just wipe it… :-)
If you want any help with either setting it up or doing periodic admin work, I’d be up for it.
May 27th, 2005 at 6:03 pm
thanks man! im sure the vic appreciates!
May 27th, 2005 at 6:44 pm
Hey, you could always go wired on weekends. It would be sort of retro, you know, in keeping with Victrola’s theme. Put an eight port hub in the middle of the coffee table in the back, and make all of those antisocial net junkies (like me) sit next to each other on the couch… that would solve the sparsity problem that’s created by lone laptop users monopolizing four-person tables.
Or what about hacking the router/gateway box to replace all internet banners with ads that say “Hey, you’ve been using the wifi for 47 minutes… buy some more coffee” ?
Seriously, though, I think turning off wifi on weekends is a good move. Kudos. I’m glad it’s still there on weekdays, though.
May 27th, 2005 at 9:07 pm
For quite some time, I have been telling people that “friends don’t let friens use wireless”. I usually state network safety reasons but this is just one more argument to add to the mix. Thanks for a great post.
May 28th, 2005 at 5:19 am
the problem is that cutitng off the prickwads who camp tends to lead to endless whining. you know how when the router has a hiccup, there’s 12 of them at the counter…ordering nothing? there’s a reason for that.
i love the “wired” idea on the weekends. heh. sunday night is a night i liked to hang out, drink three lattes, and do schoolwork, which these days requires a net connection. so i figure i’ll swap another night elsewhere for a night at the victrola during the week.
i hate the customers who take up four-person tables to themselves, though, and refuse to share, and seem to always be on the cell phone screaming about something. they make me tired especially because half the time there is no drink in evidence, or, worse, a starbucks cup. i think perhaps we as customers need to be self-enforcing about these people and remind them to order stuff. because, let’s face it, these are the jerks who camp and don’t tip, taking up the space that non-camping tippers could be at.
May 28th, 2005 at 8:08 am
Coming from the, perhaps, more conservative midwest, I’d take a more proactive course with the squatters. “You haven’t bought a cuppa, you haven’t tipped, you’ve been here four hours, and you’re using our power. Move along, ya mooch.” And if your baristas can’t handle handle the heat, then maybe they should grow some ovaries.
I can’t imagine letting my business, my bread and butter, and the livliehood of my employees be held ransom by bunch of losers so crass as to complain when the FREE wi-fi has a hiccup. Since they clearly have no regard for you, or anyone else apparently, you owe them very little courtesy. If you alienate them, so what? What are they gonna do, vote with their wallets? Complain to their fellow moochers? “Oh man, Victrola kicked me out. Don’t go there.”
Best suggestion so far though is, plaster over the outlets.
May 28th, 2005 at 11:04 am
Its not that we’re super-focused on the people loitering and not spending enough money - thats almost the norm in a good cafe - its more the way it dampens the energy of the place.
We don’t want our baristas to be either authority-figures/cops or “how may i take your order” pbtc (people-behind-the-counter). Our customers are our friends/peers/neighbors, and though people walk in with a lot of sociological baggage when a cash register enters the picture, the sustainability of Victrola as a business is as much dependant on it being a low-bullshit atmosphere as it is on whether or not you buy a macaroon with your espresso.
May 28th, 2005 at 10:46 pm
i still contend that kerosene is the answer.
Also one person at a four top.. never ask “may i sit with you?” instead ask “is there anyone sitting here?”
May 29th, 2005 at 8:34 am
We do the captive portal thing at almost 100 free wifi locations, the initial splash screen can be changed as a function of day/time if required. The gateways run for months without rebooting. Hard to prove any correlation on this, but we limit peer2peer, block websites that should not be viewed in public, and limit uploads - we record dozens of users per site per day yet the session duration is typically under 1 hour - we count the number of users, time per user and upload/download usage per day, so a venue owner could look if he were interested. If required, we could limit the session length on some days, or the time/mac/day could be limited to support the good users and discourage the baddies…..
May 30th, 2005 at 10:30 am
Hey guys,
Long time no see. Good to see you are doing well. You guys will be happy to know I started my own coffee blog after moving to Portland. I miss your coffee and your good service. Drop me a line sometime.
Jeff
May 30th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
The non paying customers should have the decency to sit outside in their car and surf the web.
May 31st, 2005 at 5:41 am
OMFG U GUYS ARE SO LAME I WILL NEVER SHOP AT THIS WEBSITE AGAIN
May 31st, 2005 at 10:00 am
As a patron who spends a good amount of time weekly at coffee shops, I only go to the shops that offer free wifi. Unfortunately, I no longer go to Starbucks when I have to work because they do not offer free Internet Access at all. You have to join a service that isn’t availabe everywhere and costs an additional $40 bucks a month. I already pay for this at home and don’t want to have to join another service. I make a point to buy something each time I visit a shop. It is only fair. I think, if you don’t offer wifi that you will lose some business, but I understand that some people will take advantage of this.
June 2nd, 2005 at 7:52 pm
Not to totally single you out Scott, but you sound like the kind of customer that Victrola specifically doesn’t need (and frankly, should “fire”).
You said, “as a patron who spends a good amount of time weekly at coffee shops…” and then “I already pay for this at home and don’t want to have to pay for another service”… and then “I make a point to buy something each time I visit a shop…”
Let me ask you this. Do you pay for something *each hour* you’re at the shop taking up a table, surfing for free? Do you pay for something each two hours you’re there?
Or how about this. Let’s say you’ve bought your $1.50 drip coffee. You camp out at a four seater table cuz that’s the only one available because all the other tables are taken up by net surfer / buckfitty coffee drinkers. After an hour or so, your coffee is long gone, and you’re drinking water. You see a group of three people come in, look around, and see no tables available and start heading for the door. Do you take that time to realize that you’re camping out now and taking up tables that end up costing the café business, and do the right thing - stand up, tell the group “hey, do you want a table? I’ll give it up since I’m not having anything here at the moment.”?
Some how, I’m gonna bet that the answer to all three questions is no, you don’t.
The kind of customer that Victrola doesn’t need, and frankly should be “firing” is the type who comes in, buys a minimal drink (under $3 or $4 or even $5 worth of stuff) then decides that is their buy in to stay for hours, or even all day, taking up tables. Not to mention the complete and utter lusers who come in and don’t buy anything at all.
The mentality of far too many people (perhaps even you Scott) is that you think that $2 americano, or $3 latte buys you a day of free wifi. What you don’t realize is that in many cases, that $2 you spent + your hours of camping out can cost the company five, ten times that in lost sales. You are in a way stealing from this company. It’s rude. It’s inconsiderate. And it’s extremely greedy.
I love wifi in cafes. I use it all the time. But I have three golden rules. a) wifi and the internet don’t rule my cafe life - social comes first. b) I make a point to spend at least $4 to $5 per hour I plan to be there. If not all at once (gimme a couple of paninis, willya!) then everytime my beverage is finished. And c) if I see the cafe full and I know I’m not buying anything else, and people come in, I give up my spot. The free wifi provided was a pleasant gift from that cafe. I never take it as a given or a right.
respectfully,
Mark
June 3rd, 2005 at 3:00 am
Have a look at Zone-CD from http://www.publicip.net/.
Boots off a CD and needs a PC/intel box with two ethernet ports - it’s main benefit is the ease of setup & management of the config.
HTH
f
June 4th, 2005 at 9:14 am
I never spend more than 30 minutes inside Victrola, but I will not return there on the weekend until the wifi is restored. I don’t understand why the system cannot be set up so that the first hour is free and one has to pay after that.
June 5th, 2005 at 12:46 am
I’ve written a bit more on this:
http://tonx.org/index.php/archives/would-you-like-some-coffee-with-that-wifi/
June 5th, 2005 at 11:14 am
Mark, I agree with your comments about giving up your spot if you haven’t bought anything in a while. What we are witnessing is the economic phenomenon of appreciation in value of the ” third space.” Remember when a phone bill didn’t include cell phone, cable and Internet? With all the innovations in telecommunications, we have become acclimated to paying more for “communicating.”
As a Starbucks user, I figure that the $29.99 (I am a T-mobile subscriber) I pay per month to some extent offsets the one to three hours that I spend per day at a coffeeshop. What do I buy while I am Starbucks sometimes for three hours? A $1.65 cent coffee (.45 cents for tips), and maybe one $.55 refill. I am student, so I am can’t spend money on a panini every hour, although I would say that the baristas where I normally go deserve that in tips/hour, so I am extra nice to them.
I recommend the following solution: as a sometimes off, sometimes on user of Victrola’s courtesy wireless connection (and I don’t go there but once a month or so, for the same reasons that have been stated above), I know for a fact that when an enormous number of people are logged into Victrola’s router, everyone’s connection slows down. How about having users pay to use a better wireless solution that provides consistent service? The bohemia may be lost (not everything can always be free), but its a little less alienating for the techies, I would think.
Daniel
June 5th, 2005 at 8:01 pm
Good for Victrola for making a decision about what kind of establishment they wish to be. It’s the power of any business to determine what it offers. Doctors offices choose their hours. Bars (save NY and CA) choose if they cater to smokers or not. Shops choose their return policy. McDonalds chooses to stop serving breakfast at 11am.
But its all good, for every McDonalds that stops serving breakfast at 11am there is a local diner that makes its mark by serving breakfast all day. Why throw a hissy fit in the McDonalds drive through claiming 20 years of patronage when I can just go down the road to Denny’s where they proudly serve pancakes all day.
For economic or aesthetic reasons Victrola’s owners have choose not to “serve” WIFI during certain hours. But being a former capital hill dweller I can vouch that less than a quarter mile from Victrola there are a half dozen other coffee shops with WIFI. I can think of two that cater heavily to laptop users. If Victrola can turn WIFI customers away, yet still fill their cash registers, and feel their business is livelier, good for them. This is also good for other shops looking for new weekend customers and would be happy to serve WIFI to woo them. There apparently are enough coffee lovers out there for many business models to work.
The point here is that there is no coffee shop or WIFI crisis! There will always be coffee shops that cater to the social, those that cater to book readers and writers, and those that cater to people looking for an office away from the office. Each of these business’ has a right to target whatever segment of coffee drinkers they wish to serve.
One suggestion I have heard to cheaply and easily deal with WIFI squatters is to lock/remove electrical outlets. Most modern laptops can’t go for more than 2 hours on battery. This sort of strikes a fair medium without too much effort involved. Sure some geeks have shelled out the big bucks for 2 or 3 batteries, but hopefully these are the types with big enough wallets to order lots of coffee.
I for one will continue to laptop at coffee shops now and again, obviously not Victrola on weekends. But I’m also going to continue to meet friends for social time at Victrola as it is lively for that. I simply will go where I need to accomplish what I want.
June 8th, 2005 at 10:06 am
Bravo and Great move! Your employees are there to run a business not be babysitters, and speaking as a customer from the early days of Victrola I won’t miss the wireless on weekends. The last several times I was in your shop on the weekend I was amazed at how despite the fact that Victrola had expanded, there were less places to sit due to people zoning out on their laptops. Admittedly now that I live lower down on the hill I don’t get to the Victrola often, but I do know that the last time I was able to find seating for myself and friends on a weekend it was outside right after a rain shower.
Though I may sound like I hold animosity towards wireless coffee shop goers, I don’t as I’ve taken my laptop to coffee shops myself. I just try to confine it to a time I know that (coffee shop X) will be quiet, or if I’m going with someone else and we’re using the laptop for a meeting.
But really, when it comes down to it, the reason for going to a coffee shop, be it Victrola or anywhere else shouldn’t be the wireless, it should be the quality of the product. And as long as you keep delivering on that I’ll keep stopping in when I make it up to 15th.
February 3rd, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Very very interesting!!!
April 4th, 2006 at 11:01 am
Kjempe kuuuul hjemmeside du har.
July 10th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
Interesting and thought provoking. Reminds me of the only all night diner in the town in which I grew up. Long before computers were popular, but similar problems with folks camping out for hours over a single cup of coffee. The management finally started selling coffee by the hour, which seemed to work out well for everyone.